From gatorbabs at yahoo.com  Tue Oct 21 18:56:06 2008
From: gatorbabs at yahoo.com (Babs Steorts)
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2008 09:56:06 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: CROCLIST: Hi everyone!
Message-ID: <604138.27166.qm@web52910.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

I hope this finds you all well.
I just wanted to let everyone know that I am no longer with Gatorland.? I am now working for Gator Adventure Productions.? GAP is an alligator entertainment company based here in Orlando, FL.? We do a variety of alligator themed productions and performances.
My new phone number is (407)883-7052 or you can reach me by email gatorbabs at yahoo.com or babsmorrissiey at gatoradventurepark.com
?
Cheers,
Babs Morrissiey
?
?


      
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From abritton at crocodilian.com  Mon Oct 27 10:29:35 2008
From: abritton at crocodilian.com (Adam Britton)
Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 19:29:35 +1000
Subject: CROCLIST: Hi everyone!
In-Reply-To: <604138.27166.qm@web52910.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20081027093008.5A1562AC069@delirium.serve.com>

Hi Babs,

Welcome to Croclist, and good luck with the new venture.  Croclist is a
quiet place that explodes into occasional frenzied activity every once in a
while, usually when someone says something about crocs.  Don't hold back!

Cheers,

Adam


-----Original Message-----
From: croclist-bounces at lists.gatorhole.com
[mailto:croclist-bounces at lists.gatorhole.com] On Behalf Of Babs Steorts
Sent: 22 October 2008 02:56
To: croclist at lists.gatorhole.com
Subject: CROCLIST: Hi everyone!

I hope this finds you all well.
I just wanted to let everyone know that I am no longer with Gatorland.  I am
now working for Gator Adventure Productions.  GAP is an alligator
entertainment company based here in Orlando, FL.  We do a variety of
alligator themed productions and performances.
My new phone number is (407)883-7052 or you can reach me by email
gatorbabs at yahoo.com or babsmorrissiey at gatoradventurepark.com
 
Cheers,
Babs Morrissiey
 
 



From sengkelat at yahoo.com  Tue Oct 28 00:23:57 2008
From: sengkelat at yahoo.com (Sengkelat)
Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 16:23:57 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: CROCLIST: 6th WCH, Croc species, and some photos
In-Reply-To: <20081027093008.5A1562AC069@delirium.serve.com>
Message-ID: <654728.60053.qm@web42106.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Since we're not experiencing floods of traffic on the croclist, it's probably safe for me to blather a bit.

I was in Manaus in August for the 6th World Congress of Herpetology, which was a lot of fun.  I enjoyed all the croc talks, and particularly enjoyed Chris Brochu's very engaging presentation.  Kent Vliet also had an amazing collection of videos of well trained crocodilians.

I heard some comment which suggested that Dave Wake was questioning the basis of crocodilian species designations, and that perhaps a new definition of species was needed for crocodilians.  Can anyone comment on that?  Am I misconstruing the comment entirely, or is there some real controversy as to croc species?

Also, I took plenty of photos; I've linked to the croc-specific ones because I'm sure no one wants to wade through my 874 vacation slides.

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/sengkelat/2828433252/in/set-72157607414065456/">Black caiman skull in the INPA museum, 3 pictures</a>

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/sengkelat/2828447942/in/set-72157607414065456/">Spectacled and black caiman at INPA, 12 pictures</a>

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/sengkelat/2827678461/in/set-72157607414065456/">Spectacled caiman at Parque do Mindu, 8 pictures</a>

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/sengkelat/2827718051/in/set-72157607414065456/">Caiman at the CIGS zoo, 2 pictures</a>

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/sengkelat/2830485523/in/set-72157607414065456/">Catching caiman from a canoe in Lago Juma, 24 pictures</a>

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/sengkelat/2843107033/in/set-72157607414065456/">Catching one more caiman, poorly, and getting bitten, 8 pictures</a>

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/sengkelat/2828822023/in/set-72157607414065456/">Two poorly photographed broad-snouted caiman on the banks of the Rio Iguacu, 6 pictures</a>

-Kevin L. Wang



      

From v0v04ka at hotmail.com  Wed Oct 29 08:45:50 2008
From: v0v04ka at hotmail.com (Vladimir Dinets)
Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2008 07:45:50 +0000
Subject: CROCLIST: Nile croc vocalizations
Message-ID: <BAY102-W21082F93A37D99E15FB445F1260@phx.gbl>


 
Dear All,
While studying Nile crocodiles in Africa, I found an interesting difference between populations. In some places (i.e. small tributaries of Luangwa River in Zambia) they roar, while in others (i. e. Santa Lucia estuary in South Africa) their roars are reduced to short coughs, like in saltwater crocs. I am trying to find out if it is caused by individual reactions to habitat or by subspecific-level genetic differences.
If anybody here has heard roaring or head-slapping Nile crocs in the wild or in captivity (but with known place of origin), could you please tell me what they sounded like? I am only interested in mating-season infrasound-accompanied roars, not defensive or aggressive ones.
Thanks.
Vladimir Dinets
_________________________________________________________________
Store, manage and share up to 5GB with Windows Live SkyDrive.
http://skydrive.live.com/welcome.aspx?provision=1?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_skydrive_102008
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From rsessu1 at lsu.edu  Wed Oct 29 09:18:31 2008
From: rsessu1 at lsu.edu (Ryan Sessums)
Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2008 03:18:31 -0500
Subject: CROCLIST: Nile croc vocalizations
Message-ID: <20081029081831.AD17D837DC@ws4-3.us4.outblaze.com>

Greetings,

I was wondering if you were also considering the "caused by individual reactions to habitat or by subspecific-level genetic differences." variable in vocal modality and differential acoustic properties of reproductively driven vocal expressions in related species such as the American and Chinese Alligator

The complexity and variation in chorus, bellows, as well as more close contact vocal communication in the Chinese Alligator (in my oppinion) I find to be most interesting if not beautifully alien when one truly imagines its possible functions

I live in Louisiana and am currently researching reproductive aspects of the American Alligator as well The Chinese and making comparisons (genetic, optimum incubation temp, environmental differences in the wild etc.)  Out of both interest and default I will be in prime alligator territory for listening to and describing the "mating chorus" as well as other loud (roars etc) noises in many different environments:  i.e. A wildlife reserve Alligator Bayou that while protected remains wild (minimal interference) to the habitat structure, as well as alligator farms...the Rockafeller Refugee and numerous other places during the mating periods...If you were looking to make comparisons I will be glad to compile data with you as I will be working on this project for at least the next two years.

Also, if you would happen to have any (uncommon or hard to access)l iiterature or factoids regarding the reproductive behavior, hormonal changes/patterns, and other reproductive parameters in the Crocs (if you have access as mine is somewhat limited or if it is not to much trouble) I would greatly appreciate it as full text and often simply viable information is lacking with my institutions access to such species

> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Vladimir Dinets" <v0v04ka at hotmail.com>
> To: croclist at lists.gatorhole.com
> Subject: CROCLIST: Nile croc vocalizations
> Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2008 07:45:50 +0000
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dear All,
> While studying Nile crocodiles in Africa, I found an interesting 
> difference between populations. In some places (i.e. small 
> tributaries of Luangwa River in Zambia) they roar, while in others 
> (i. e. Santa Lucia estuary in South Africa) their roars are reduced 
> to short coughs, like in saltwater crocs. I am trying to find out 
> if it is caused by individual reactions to habitat or by 
> subspecific-level genetic differences.
> If anybody here has heard roaring or head-slapping Nile crocs in 
> the wild or in captivity (but with known place of origin), could 
> you please tell me what they sounded like? I am only interested in 
> mating-season infrasound-accompanied roars, not defensive or 
> aggressive ones.
> Thanks.
> Vladimir Dinets
> _________________________________________________________________
> Store, manage and share up to 5GB with Windows Live SkyDrive.
> http://skydrive.live.com/welcome.aspx?provision=1?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_skydrive_102008
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Croclist mailing list
> Croclist at lists.gatorhole.com
> http://lists.gatorhole.com/mailman/listinfo/croclist
> Croclist Image Website: http://reptilians.org/croclist/

>


From gator_keeper_17 at yahoo.com  Wed Oct 29 22:32:12 2008
From: gator_keeper_17 at yahoo.com (Ryan Presto)
Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2008 14:32:12 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: CROCLIST: New Heater that can be applied to Small Crocodilian
	enclosures/Cleveland Zoo Dwarf Crocodile
Message-ID: <368374.10724.qm@web57907.mail.re3.yahoo.com>

It is winter-ish in Ohio, and one of my friends lost his dwar crocf. He let his attic door open and it got too cool. This was really unfortunate, because it was a really cool little critter. I almost had the same experiance with my dwarf caiman.?My two submersible heaters died on me. I tried to combat the cooling water by filling large water juggs with hot water. She survived through the night. The next dayI went and got a hydor 300 watt inline heater. It is Italian made.?This is vastly superior to submersibles. An added bennefit is that you can controll the water temps without having to stick your hands in your toothy friends enclosure. Also I got to meet the head reptile keeper at our Cleveland zoo, and he made me reevaluate my thoughts on uv lights?for the dwarf species.?Thier dwarf crocodile is the best looking dwarf crocodillian I have seen. They use mercury vapor lights, but they also give her areas to hide in the dark. She doesn't have any
 tooth splaying like I have seen in other animals. And she has fantasitc colors. She feeds right out in the bright lights, operantly conditioned using a cow bell.


      
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From abritton at crocodilian.com  Thu Oct 30 04:04:40 2008
From: abritton at crocodilian.com (Adam Britton)
Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2008 13:04:40 +1000
Subject: CROCLIST: Nile croc vocalizations
In-Reply-To: <20081029081831.AD17D837DC@ws4-3.us4.outblaze.com>
Message-ID: <20081030030439.E71862AC090@delirium.serve.com>

I think there are quite a few factors that influence vocalisation in crocs,
and both environmental and social factors are prime amongst them.  There are
very likely strong genetic factors at play also - even when you hatch
different clutches of crocodiles of the same species, some will vocalise
strongly out of the egg and others remain relatively quiet.  Strong
vocalisation tends to accompany very aggressive behaviour, and quiet
behaviour accompanies subdued behaviour.  This could be temperature related
as well of course, but there are very obvious clutch effects.  

It's difficult to put an objective assessment on wild conditions because
there are so many variables to consider.  For instance, I've noticed that
freshwater crocodiles in areas that are less exposed to human presence are
more likely to vocalise amongst themselves, and far more likely to respond
to human noises.  This "naivet?" extends to saltwater crocodiles also, with
those less habituated more likely to be interested in human presence (an
unusual event worthy of investigation), and larger individuals can in
isolated pools express different calls because they are more likely to be in
a dominant / territorial situation worthy of more aggressive signals.  In
the field last month my wife (who is far better at doing distress calls than
I am!) had many great conversations with numerous freshwater crocodiles in
separate isolated escarpment pools.  In each case the crocodile immediate
looked towards us, swam across slowly, and vocalised, eventually hanging a
metre or two in front of us looking on curiously.  Only when they realised
that we were large potential threats did they flee and suddenly become very
wary.  However, one of these was quite intent on defending its patch -
proven effectively when it submerged, swam up to my left foot, and bit my
middle toe aggressively!  Quite unusual behaviour for a freshie.

So Vladimir, I'd suggest that the variations in calls that you heard may
very well have been different signals caused by different environmental or
social conditions.  That's not to say genetic factors aren't involved, and
it would be a great understatement to say we need to learn a lot more about
this vastly under-studied area of croc behaviour.

I think we need to put together a vocalisation database for each species,
together with locality, behaviour and other relevant situational data.
Their calls are typically contained in the bandwidth sensitive to even
relatively cheap microphones without too much bias being created, so it's
something that many could contribute to.

Best wishes,

Adam

-----Original Message-----
From: croclist-bounces at lists.gatorhole.com
[mailto:croclist-bounces at lists.gatorhole.com] On Behalf Of Ryan Sessums
Sent: 29 October 2008 18:19
To: The Crocodilian List
Subject: Re: CROCLIST: Nile croc vocalizations

Greetings,

I was wondering if you were also considering the "caused by individual
reactions to habitat or by subspecific-level genetic differences." variable
in vocal modality and differential acoustic properties of reproductively
driven vocal expressions in related species such as the American and Chinese
Alligator

The complexity and variation in chorus, bellows, as well as more close
contact vocal communication in the Chinese Alligator (in my oppinion) I find
to be most interesting if not beautifully alien when one truly imagines its
possible functions

I live in Louisiana and am currently researching reproductive aspects of the
American Alligator as well The Chinese and making comparisons (genetic,
optimum incubation temp, environmental differences in the wild etc.)  Out of
both interest and default I will be in prime alligator territory for
listening to and describing the "mating chorus" as well as other loud (roars
etc) noises in many different environments:  i.e. A wildlife reserve
Alligator Bayou that while protected remains wild (minimal interference) to
the habitat structure, as well as alligator farms...the Rockafeller Refugee
and numerous other places during the mating periods...If you were looking to
make comparisons I will be glad to compile data with you as I will be
working on this project for at least the next two years.

Also, if you would happen to have any (uncommon or hard to access)l
iiterature or factoids regarding the reproductive behavior, hormonal
changes/patterns, and other reproductive parameters in the Crocs (if you
have access as mine is somewhat limited or if it is not to much trouble) I
would greatly appreciate it as full text and often simply viable information
is lacking with my institutions access to such species

> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Vladimir Dinets" <v0v04ka at hotmail.com>
> To: croclist at lists.gatorhole.com
> Subject: CROCLIST: Nile croc vocalizations
> Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2008 07:45:50 +0000
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dear All,
> While studying Nile crocodiles in Africa, I found an interesting 
> difference between populations. In some places (i.e. small 
> tributaries of Luangwa River in Zambia) they roar, while in others 
> (i. e. Santa Lucia estuary in South Africa) their roars are reduced 
> to short coughs, like in saltwater crocs. I am trying to find out 
> if it is caused by individual reactions to habitat or by 
> subspecific-level genetic differences.
> If anybody here has heard roaring or head-slapping Nile crocs in 
> the wild or in captivity (but with known place of origin), could 
> you please tell me what they sounded like? I am only interested in 
> mating-season infrasound-accompanied roars, not defensive or 
> aggressive ones.
> Thanks.
> Vladimir Dinets
> _________________________________________________________________
> Store, manage and share up to 5GB with Windows Live SkyDrive.
>
http://skydrive.live.com/welcome.aspx?provision=1?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_skydrive
_102008
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Croclist mailing list
> Croclist at lists.gatorhole.com
> http://lists.gatorhole.com/mailman/listinfo/croclist
> Croclist Image Website: http://reptilians.org/croclist/

>

_______________________________________________
Croclist mailing list
Croclist at lists.gatorhole.com
http://lists.gatorhole.com/mailman/listinfo/croclist
Croclist Image Website: http://reptilians.org/croclist/